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Reading Group Announcement: Carroll Quigley’s Tragedy and Hope

anon_bwxy said in #1706 14mo ago:

Following our discussion at >>1305, let’s read and discuss Tragedy and Hope. This book, published in 1966, is one of the masterworks of Carroll Quigley, arguably the 20th century’s best historian. It’s an ambitious macrohistory of Western Civilization, organized around the three great world conflicts of the 20th century. Lots of first-rate analysis of diplomacy and political economy, and a bit on intellectual and cultural issues as well. Apparently there are some censored editions floating around; the 2004 edition of the book, which says “UNABRIDGED” in small print at the top of the front cover, is complete, and can be downloaded free from libgen.

I’ll organize our reading group as a series of weekly-ish threads, each covering one or several chapters, about 100-200 pages each time. There is only one rule: to post in the thread, you must first read the chapters under discussion. If you’re less interested in a particular section, or if you’re too busy, then feel free to skip the thread and come back to the next one. But if you haven’t actually done the reading, then please don’t clutter up our discussion. Resurrecting old threads is encouraged, of course.

I’ll post our first thread on Wednesday May 15, covering:
Chapter I: Western Civilization In Its World Setting
Chapter 2: Western Civilization To 1914
Chapter 3: The Russian Empire To 1917

Let us know if you plan to join for all or part.

referenced by: >>1709 >>1768 >>1795 >>1842

Following our discus

anon_qugu said in #1707 14mo ago:

Awesome, just ordered it on Amazon.

Awesome, just ordere

anon_gone said in #1709 14mo ago:

>>1706
I like what I see. Will do my best to go through it all. A real eye opener once you get to the parts into the censorship worthy stuff.
>“By the end of the 1920’s, Philips Exeter Academy was welcoming on scholarships the sons of laboring immigrants with polysyllabic names, and by the 1950’s Episcopal clergymen were making calls on “likely-looking” Negro families.”

>“Many of these eager workers headed for medicine, because to them medicine, despite the ten years of necessary preparation, meant up to $40,000 a year income by age fifty. As a consequence, the medical profession in the United States ceased, very largely, to be a profession of fatherly confessors and unprofessing humanitarians and became one of the largest groups of hardheaded petty-bourgeois hustlers in the United States, and their professional association became the most ruthlessly materialistic lobbying association of any professional group. ”

This a dog whistle Right?

referenced by: >>1711

I like what I see. W

anon_gone said in #1710 14mo ago:

Okay, never mind I assume it isn't.

Okay, never mind I a

anon_bwxy said in #1711 14mo ago:

>>1709
>A real eye opener once you get to the parts into the censorship worthy stuff.

The material that was censored was accusations of coordinated plans between prewar Nazi and Allied financiers, not the taboos of 2024.

>>1710
>Okay, never mind I assume it isn't.

Indeed not. He's literally talking about the American Medical Association. As the end of the paragraph you’re quoting makes clear, this is part of a psychological profile of what we’d today call strivers:

“And, of course, the great mass of these eager beavers went into science or business, preferably into the largest corporations, where they looked with fishy-eyed anticipation at those rich, if remote, plums of vice-presidencies, in General Motors, Ford, General Dynamics, or International Business Machines.”

You can think of these businessmen as the “finance bros” or “tech bros” of their day. At the time this book was written they were being satirized in media like “How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying”.

In general, as you read this, remember that it is not part of today's Discourse. People in 1966 were having different debates, in different ways, with different taboos. The implications and references are not what they would be, if the same words were written today. So, pay less attention to those implications—they exist, of course, but they’re less accessible unless you’re pretty immersed in the period. Pay more attention to the literal meaning of the words.

The material that wa

anon_taha said in #1721 14mo ago:

Just ordered. Looking forward to reading it this weekend.

Just ordered. Lookin

anon_xovo said in #1723 14mo ago:

I'm in. I like the format.

I'm in. I like the f

anon_golo said in #1732 14mo ago:

I'm going to try, but am not sure if I'll be able to keep up with the reading pace due to other commitments. I'll do my best.

I'm going to try, bu

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