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America isn't going to become Brazil. It already is Brazil.

anon 0x51c said in #2964 24h ago: 77

According to the 2020 census, the United States was 57.8% non-Hispanic white.
According to the 2022 Brazil census, Brazil was 43.5% white.

When you add in the tens of millions of illegals in the U.S., consider that U.S. births have been majority-minority since 2011, or that in general so many non-Hispanic Whites are couch-locked Boomers, both these numbers just round out to half-white. Brazil has been half-white for a century. Half-white is the state Brazil has been in that has given Brazil its reputation as Brazil. Therefore, the U.S. is already Brazil. It crossed the mark sometime between 2010 and 2025, and Trump has so far failed to bring it back across the line. If he doesn't succeed by 2029, it's probably a permanently locked-in change.

And this is a major, major change for America. In 1980, America was 80% non-Hispanic white. This is the America that most people alive today still romanticize. As late as 2000, America was 70% non-Hispanic white. (Even if, for the sake of argument, we consider Hispanic whites to be truly whites, this proportion was at 70% in 2010, and has dropped to 62% as of 2020 and is rapidly dropping further.)

For comparison, the YooKay is currently 83% white as of the 2021-22 census. Based on its statistics office records, Germany is at least 85% white; this figure is pushed up by huge immigration of Southern and Eastern Europeans to Germany. Most other European countries will be at least as white as this, many virtually 100% white. France might be an exception.

America is even worse off than Canada or Australia. As of the 2021 census, Canada is 69% white. Australia is estimated to be roughly 72% white as of 2021. In other words, Europe today is as white as America was in the 60s and 70s, and Canada and Australia are, somehow, still as white as America was in the 1990s.

America is not just the least white formerly-white Western country, but the least racist formerly-white country. Its immigrants are the most diverse and in many respects the worst (i.e. Venezuelan gang members, Haitian villagers, etc.). Its population is the least inclined to take any personal or collective steps towards any kind of ethnic, racial, or cultural preservation. All of this too points to permanent Brazilification.

America is no longer a white country with high trust and a competent federal government. It is now a Latin American country with low trust and incompetent, fractious governance and elites. This isn't *going* to happen anymore. It's happened. We're living it. From the streets which are filled with all kinds of people but not white, to the elite universities which are increasingly filled with the children or grandchildren of Asian and Indian elites, America has changed.

Whether something should be done to change this, could be done, or will be done, are separate questions. But the first step is recognizing that it has already happened.

According to the 202 77

anon 0x51c said in #2965 24h ago: 22

To reframe the point: in 1930, America was as white as Germany is today. In 1970, it was as white as the UK is today. America has historically looked and behaved like European countries. This is no longer the case, nor can be the case.

To reframe the point 22

anon 0x51d said in #2966 20h ago: 77

We see this on the street every day. It's obvious the big demographic power of European civilization from the early 20th century is going and gone. Largely this was predictable and predicted a hundred years ago (Stoddard's "Rising Tide" was published 1920). Then we fought a major world war over it, then an extended series of cultural and legal revolutions and proxy wars in collaboration with our allies from that war to make sure there was no possible resistance to it. Then the long march through the institutions by our parents in pursuit of this outcome got to the point of declaring yet another cultural revolution against even that status quo. Whatever this is, it's also not some new aberration, or an accident.

The endpoint of the current trajectory is global favelaworld, but I also think the deliberate intention (as opposed to mere momentum and looting) is fairly weak now compared to its historical levels of elite support. I think we could change course to something less bleak if we figure out what we actually want in light of this reality. But the change of course isn't just going to be "return". Rather some kind of adaptation by civilization or seeds of civilization to living with global favelaworld background radiation. On the other hand, by the time the ancient world got to this point, it was extremely over and we needed a thousand years of germanic feudalism to clean up the mess. Who knows?

Whatever the solution or next mode of life is, I sort of doubt that dwelling on this situation is the way to solve it. But let's dwell on it and see where it goes. I'll lay out a speculative argument I'm not sure of:

1. (Western) civilization is in decline because of an overdetermined self-reinforcing pile-up of dysfunction including the demographic stuff you point to OP.
2. Civilization is a huge project that can't really exist in pockets amid global favelaworld decline. If this decline cannot be stopped, (I will bet that it can't) then we're probably going to need to collapse back down to "equilibrium" before the incentives will work for re-growth.
3. There might be a Seldon-esque "Foundation" plan to deliberately prepare for the rebuilding, keeping something like the flame of civilization alive in a subculture sufficiently isolated from and disdainful of favelaworld decline. (is this not a grown up version of what we do around here?)
4. The security system of favelaworld will be the last part of civilization to fall, so this Foundation plan has to be somewhat esoteric, fluent enough in the prestige of the system to avoid destruction or retardation and recruit the builders of civilization, but not so fluent that it gets sucked into the decline incentives.
5. The Foundation has to be intrinsically motivated by something other than mere reaction to the decline or preservation of the dying civilization. It must have its own independent telos. Let's assume there's something like that in the nascent Worldview we've been circling around.
6. The way forward is not to dwell on the decline issue, but to dwell on the epistemic and metaphysical foundation of that telos, solving the key philosophical problems of the future to our own satisfaction, codify our premises, and follow that inspiration along an independent vector for future civilization.

referenced by: >>2973

We see this on the s 77

anon 0x520 said in #2973 5h ago: 00

>>2966
I wrote quite a lengthy reply and then accidentally deleted it. FML. I'm not rewriting that at 5 am.
TLDR...
I agree with the "Seldon-esque Foundation" concept, and accept your various logical points as true. Personally, I believe Eugenics can become a primary (though not the only) directive of a new, divergent culture, essentially believing in the pursuit of human excellence and evolution. However, I have my doubts about its efficacy in covering all the questions of society, especially compared to Christianity and the athiest-nominalist-materialist-whatever predecessors.
Funnily enough, I have thought long about attending Stanford, peeling off the capable and competent from the western tech-men, and bringing them to South Africa or South America, converging even closer to a "Seldon-esque Foundation".

I wrote quite a leng 00

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