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How to catch a wife, 2025 edition.

anon_gyxi said in #3572 2d ago: received

>>3553

Anon asks how to find a good woman in 2025. I've been out of the game for a while and experience only generalizes so much, but success is informative, so I have some thoughts.

We all know when we hear of those lineups of perfect princesses that have everything going for them but can't find a husband that there must be something wrong with them. Well the same argument applies to you. If you can't find a good wife, there's something wrong with you. Fortunately we can think this through from first principles and turn the list of possible problems into a todo list of things to fix:

Step 1: be tall and handsome. The incel forums have debated this at great length with great rigor and this is the scientific result. At least you can do something about the latter like grooming, lifting, dressing well, etc, but we don't need to discuss here.

Step 2: be charismatic. The old pre-lookism "game" advice amounts to this. This can be trained, with focus on general social skills, having a strong frame, and knowing how to flirt. Study and practice, anon!

Step 3: have good potential and character. The right girls are like good investors: they can see your potential before it happens. The duller and lower character ones can't see you until after you succeed. There is therefore a signal-to-noise advantage in finding your wife early, and in putting yourself in order.

Step 4: be attracted to women. We live in an asexual age. It's cringe to be heterosexual in 2025 but you need to do it anyways. Notice that girl across the room and develop genuine optimistic admiration for her, then go talk to her. You can filter later.

Step 5: be socializing enough. If you aren't in the room, you won't see her. Not to generalize too hard from my own experience but parties are a great way to meet people. Even on the apps you're going to come off as a sperg if you don't regularly socialize with the kind of people you want to meet.

Step 6: escalate optimistically. Finding reasons to be pessimistic about any given girl instead of going ahead as if it might work is a big mistake. The practice reps at least are very worth it, and she might surprise you. Even if you think it's not going to work, don't cut her off until she's actually wasting your time or you would be spoiling her virtue.

Step 7: avoid situationships. The ultimate high risk waste of time is falling in love with the wrong girl and spending years in limbo or worse bumbling into the wrong marriage. One reason to be explicit early is that forcing the decision makes it harder to deceive yourself. You can't allow yourself to be a naively lovestruct comfort-zombie. You must become a hardended selective breeding officer arranging the right pairing. Save falling in love for the wedding day.

Step 8: be realistic about your own value and flaws. The hardest part is calibrating your standards for who's good enough and who's too good for you. Shoot your shot with the best of course, but if you're doing the rest of this and not meeting two potential mates per year *who are also into you*, your standards are too high. Value of information is high in the teens and early 20s, but by the mid 20s it's time to pick someone.

Step 9: be able to recognize a good woman. There's a ton more than fits here about what to look for in a woman, but while we're on the obvious train, you need to study and reflect on this too.

Step 10: be oriented to real marriage. This was the point of the previous thread. You're not going to succeed if you don't have your strategic priorities in order. Girls can tell, and so can I. A lot of guys don't know what they want. If you do know what you want, your charisma will bend your girl towards it.

I'm sure you'd rather I give you the secret silver bullet formula or tell you it's all hopeless these days, but that would be cope. If I was single today, this is the plan I would be running. Do others' experiences fit with this?

referenced by: >>3607

Anon asks how to fin received

anon_zagu said in #3594 1d ago: received

Great post. This is some of the best, most concrete, concise and actionable advice I have seen on the topic. A welcome respite from the Hieronymus Bosch wasteland of online dating discourse.

To the one person who downvoted: find God. Here is what happened--one of the steps, most likely Step 1, feels out of reach to you. You feel bad and you're seething about it. OP is Wrong! Perhaps you are typing up a long motivated-reasoning rebuttal right now.

Here is the reality--Gnon is present, right here, and He wants you to succeed. "Don't kill the part of you that is cringe, kill the part of you that cringes." Seek sun and steel. Watch some Serge Gainsbourg / Jane Birkin vibe reels if you must. Respect yourself and always remember that fortune favors the bold.

Great post. This is received

anon_none said in #3596 1d ago: received

Being a religious extremist helps.

referenced by: >>3597

Being a religious ex received

anon_gyxi said in #3597 1d ago: received

>>3596
Yes. In particular, it generally gets you #3, #7, #9, #10, and often #8 for free.

referenced by: >>3603

Yes. In particular, received

anon_zagu said in #3603 1d ago: received

>>3597

Religiosity really only gets you #7 ("avoid situationships") and #10 ("be oriented to real marriage"). The list above is about seeking excellence. Mere fertility is a different thing entirely.

Take a Hasidic man living in Hasidic Brooklyn. He actually does much worse than normies on much of the list--especially #3 ("have good potential")---he will statistically speaking, be underemployed and living on gov't assistance for most of his life. And yet he'll have more than 6 kids.

The steps above are good personal advice for finding a great wife and starting a healthy family. They relate only tangentially to birthrates. It's true that religious fundamentalism predicts higher fertility. So does going to prison. We live in strange times.

Religiosity really o received

jewishman said in #3604 22h ago: received

This list gives me a good idea of what you might imagine a good husband to be, but it raises the question of what a good wife is. The list is good, but it needs a preamble, setting out exactly what the young man should be looking for. (My definition might be different. I believe a wife should be trainable, first of all. Thin and pretty, second. Thrifty, third. Sober. Intelligent but without tertiary education, unless it involved learning to groom dogs or perm hair. Supportive but uninterested in her husband's affairs.)

referenced by: >>3606 >>3607

This list gives me a received

anon_gyxi said in #3606 15h ago: received

>>3604
Yeah I'll put some thought into the ideal woman. That one would have to be dual use: women should hear what sensible men think is actually important. Here's an abridged brainstorm version:

The classic resource for the good woman is Proverbs 31. That's a bit out of date though as we don't live in the bronze age anymore. Penelope is also a great example. I'm also a fan of germanic mythology as a source on noble women and their character. In particular I'm fond of the honor culture extremism of characters like brunhild and kremhild. Women should be the sort who would kill you if you dishonored her. See also Tacitus etc. Strong, proud, tall, courageous, loyal, graceful, beautiful, etc. Who can ask for more?

Absolute loyalty and strength of character is obviously a good thing to test for. It's hard to communicate the subtle queues of how you can tell the difference, but asking them about lies, disloyalty, foolish vs high-character women, marriage, sexual morality, etc is a good start. Read and discuss classic books about female character like Pride and Prejudice, Kristen Lavransdottir, etc. Good women have strong (though often quiet) opinions about what is right behavior. You can tell a lot also but talking to her mother.

Obviously we like youth, intelligence, erudition, beauty, health, athleticism, social skills, and all that (did I mention youth?). A good woman should cultivate her qualities and make them visible, but is probably also very humble and modest so this can require some probing. Some less appreciated virtues like ambition, energy, charisma, industriousness, etc are also good things.

People usually misread what is important about what gets called "submissiveness". This is a total non-qualification. The important thing is being loyal, not getting in the way of her man's ambitions and plans, not refusing duties, being willing to take on her comparative advantage in childrearing and housework, willing to trust, not fighting over hierarchy, etc. It's not a virtue, but the absence of a bunch of potentially really bad character flaws. Note these virtues/vices are non-gendered and are appreciated in men as well. A controlling man who fights over household hierarchy is just as bad as a shrew. A good woman can pass the important part of this test while being ambitious, dominant, etc in a masculine way, though they usually aren't. I remember a girl quoted Ephesians 5:22 to me once to try to entice me with her ideological commitment to being submissive and it was just gross.

Physically, most modern women are too fat especially around the arms and belly and this is well over 50% of the variance of female attractiveness and even a large portion of mate quality because it indicates her general level of health, self control, class, and willingness to respond to the preferences of her potential mate. The difference between "perfect", "good", "ok", and "bad" bodyfat levels is enormously impactful at each increment. (Where "bad" is what passes for "average" like 24+ BMI, and "perfect" is like 19-21 BMI for most women depending on hormones and muscle). "Underweight" (BMI <18.5, poky bones) is bad but so rare as to be irrelevant. Men already know this stuff well but I repeat it for the benefit of women.

Similarly, putting in effort to wearing pretty clothes, flattering dresses, well groomed long hair, etc is another huge chunk of attractiveness and mate quality variance. Most women are way too drab, actively hostile to aesthetics and attraction, afraid to dress up, etc. Again it's a demonstration of skill, class, social strength, and healthy willingness to please.

As for things that women think are important but aren't helping her case: career, education (except as rough proxy for intelligence and class), the latest ideological or fashion trends, income, cosmetic surgery (can improve attractiveness if done well but can't improve mate quality), probably much else.

Yeah I'll put some t received

anon_ciha said in #3607 15h ago: received

>>3572
>>3604

I think the commandment to be a hardened selective breeding officer arranging the right pairing (aka step 9) is very much under-appreciated amongst Chads, which this forum and the particular subculture it arises from is in reality substantially composed of. Yes, incel discourse is hilarious, and yet does not really matter in the face of this superior question: what kind of children do you want given the environment you think they will live in? Chad implies highly elevated choice in the matter, but Chad has a tendency to go for Stacy, which typically means mating on a basis of psyops like 'modern beauty standards', 'porn', and other things that diverge from well-considered selective breeding.

It is the will of God that different ecological conditions require different abilities in order to succeed (success is you and your sons off to infinity putting your fuck into women). This is the basis of speciation. Really taking this to heart is a form of cosmic realism that I've seen advocated heavily in the accelerationist discussions on here, but in the individual wife catching case you should be trying to evolve your children.

This is very idiosyncratic and your success hinges on step 8. What precisely is your value relative to the mean of man? More importantly, what do you lack and wish you had? For instance, if Chad (as I am supposing is generally true for readers of this reply), you're probably physically capable and have substantial embodied intelligence / warrior spirit. But do our times really need physical excellence all that much? Perhaps a bit for well-roundedness, but it is indeed Yuri Slezkine's century. Abstract reasoning is in high demand and more of it will probably help your son put more of his fuck into the world. So, Chad, consider finding a woman who has substantially better abstract reasoning capacity than you (please trim the pool to avoid the comorbid 'mental health' issues), rather than marrying Stacy.

This example makes a lot of guesses, but the style of analysis is fruitful and something that I think Sofiechads should engage in.

I think the commandm received

anon_vodo said in #3611 9h ago: received

The average sofiechan reader or poaster has already gone through a selection bottleneck - that of being in or adjacent to the information environment that discusses what we indeed discuss. The advice we might give here to a generally ambitious, intelligent, and probably well-educated individual is different from that which I might give to my sportschad younger brother…

There is a lot of good positive advice above. But seeing as I am single at 33, I thought I might post what has NOT worked for me.

The typical individual here is going to be smart. If you want to date smart women you need to be particularly careful about their career ambitions. I think it is generally good to date a woman with a good career, but the situation I have ran into multiple times at varying phases was pursuing women that were far more interested in their careers than they were in raising a family. Or, they may have been interested in a family, but tied to a way of living that I thought to be kind of anti-thumos and couldn’t imagine raising children in. Be wary of dating women in med school, PhD programs, etc.

So you need to discuss these family + career plans early and make sure that the outcome of these discussions is that you make moves together and that the relationship takes the priority over BOTH of your respective career paths. You want to be successful in your career… but for the both of you. She can and should be successful in hers… to the extent that it aids the gains of your family. Putting your kids in daycare with a cost that is near equal to her working in a high COL area can be a nightmare. So can trying to focus on raising a family when your wife works 80 hrs/week.

When you are younger, it is difficult to tread the line between simp and making sacrifices. Best to make sure those sacrifices will pay off by discussing what will happen in detail later if at all possible. If she cannot handle these conversations… it is likely that some of these moves will not go well. You can explain your thought process here. Have the difficult conversation - you want a family and a particular way of life. Make sure that you don’t make moves for your potential wife that more than temporarily delay your career success (don’t move x-country and abandon what you have going on to attempt to save a relationship).

Sometimes in life, things go extremely poorly for your dating life. Maybe you joined the Army. Maybe you got a set of severe injuries and surgeries which took you out of the dating game for awhile. Maybe you were in a somewhat dire economic situation that required an unreasonable amount of work to get out of. Maybe you moved to a town with no dating prospects because you wanted or needed to advance another part of your life or take care of family. Maybe you came from the middle of nowhere. Maybe you moved to Antarctica. I have made all of these mistakes. Dust yourself off and get back out there.

Sometimes the hyper-optimized advice you hear in elite circles prepares you very poorly for the situations which go south. You get an idea in your head of perfect and your minor deviations from that plan feel like major trespasses. They’re not. Life is messy. I just met a man of thumos who had a messed up life and got remarried at 54 and had 3 more kids. He’s 72 and the kids are star athletes.

Speaking of thumos… I feel like this is an undervalued quality one should seek in a mate. Does she DO things? Take risks? Travel? Ice climb? Dream big? Is she interested in an ~alternative life~? Those who really inherit the future will neither be standard suburban moms nor urban girlbosses. They will be helping their husbands build cabins and alternative communities in Alaska or starting Nietzschean churches in metropolitan areas.

Just a few thoughts… anyway wish me luck on my upcoming date with a highly eugenic breeder I met backpacking last weekend. Godspeed to my single brethren.

The average sofiecha received

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