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Ivy League White Nationalism?

anon_zore said in #5579 2d ago: received

Since the 1960s, overt white nationalism has been a mostly lower class and even prison gang sort of thing, at least in public. You have your Jared Taylor, William Luther Pierce, and Richard Spencer types attempting and occasionally succeeding at a genteel air, but they mostly serve as adjuncts to the lower class main phenomenon. However, behind closed doors it seems different.

At least recently, I have noticed an interesting concentration of private white nationalism, extending to outright hitlerism, among gentile ivy leaguers (and similar). Wealthy prestigious families explicitly having as many white children as possible and actively looking for opportunities to associate with others like them, men from nth generation Eton families telling me their plans to enact remigration, Goldman Sachs guys with treasured relics of the fuhrer, young men fresh out of Harvard with well developed national socialist views, etc. This is on top of a much larger crowd with generally right wing views. Now some of this is just the kind of people I happen to run into and get interested in, but I think some of it is "real" so to speak; there's too many chance meetings turning up such people to explain as a few outliers.

Whether it is new I cannot say for sure. The last time there was significant *open* white nationalism in the elite was probably around the time of the war. Before that it was once a dominant position within the American elite, before the split between continental Nietzschean racism and American "progressive" anti-racism. What happened in between is largely obscured by suppression downstream of the 1933 regimes and the war.

If I can speculate about recent causes, the general overton-smashing since the opening of the Internet frontier in the late 2000s and early 2010s, the Trump phenomenon, the exhaustion of leftist totalitarian control hubris with COVID and the 2020 woke hysteria, October 7th 2023 losing the anti-white left a lot of their jewish support, escalation of mass immigration to obviously existential conditions, and Elon buying twitter and opening up some of these things have all contributed to the political discourse among relatively young white men going in quite a hard direction.

I don't know what to make of this exactly. On one hand it's nice to see the bad taboos of our enemies dissolve at least on the margin. On the other hand, much of this is just a general escalation of political extremism as the current order breaks down. Explicitly anti-white politics has also gotten much more bold and mainstream. Or maybe this is just a temporary consolidation period between bouts of super-woke decay-escalation. Maybe it's not even as real as it seems. Maybe it's the start of a new era of overt racial politics. Is that good or bad?

In any case I've got my eye on it and I'm intrigued. Will it amount to anything good or bad? What do you guys think?

Since the 1960s, ove received

anon_paza said in #5580 2d ago: received

I would distinguish between three clusters. These can overlap, but it's worth distinguishing them.

1) Race realism, which is just frank acknowledgement of group differences with significant genetic bases. The popular form of this is Steve Sailer and Charles Murray. How it plays out in terms of advocacy can vary greatly.

2) Ethnic advocacy among people of European descent. I use this broad phrasing because it doesn't always take the form of "white" advocacy. Some would strongly distinguish Anglos from non-Anglo whites and advocate only for Anglos. Some would specifically advocate for non-Anglo Euro traditions. What gets called "white nationalism" in the U.S. is only one tendency.

3) Particular ideological tendencies, whether anti-Jewish, national socialist, or something new and legacy-free.

I'd guess that many here on Sophiechan are sympathetic to bits of all three, but especially something new and legacy-free.

referenced by: >>5581 >>5585

I would distinguish received

anon_fagy said in #5581 1d ago: received

>>5580
If western people's are to develop some form of ingroup preference again they will need some more firm standing and ways to maintain their alliances, as seafaring peoples they often come in contact with foreigners and will need to be able to recruit their abilities. The race realism stuff particularly lacks much fertility for blossoming into more novel and useful forms, even the HBD stuff is mostly a flop. If anything in the vein of that ideology for ingroup preference is to return, whether it be called white nationalism, race realism, various ideological tendencies and or ethnic advocacy, it will have to dress itself in the language of modern psychology, psychometrics, and international politics(try winning without Chinese Ai researchers, their main issue is disloyalty). For the the standout scholars on how to do this would be Emmanuel Todd's stuff on family structures, CTC theory, merging this with evolutionary biology that allow much firmer lines to be drawn, and would not cut out basically anyone who can positively contribute to the western world.

I have some pretty solid ideas on how precisely to do this and have found it to be persuasive even among foreign elite aspirates from east asia, south asia, latin america etc, since its rather well reasoned, and easy to self-discover into that exemption or "broadly aligned" group. There is basically no ability to get it done unless we make some concessions, there is a lot of talent from a lot of the world we have to draw from, but it is a substantially smaller pool than western immigration systems are capable or built to select yet. I'll get started on a writeup, since it's the sort of thing that could actually be formally adopted and isn't too hard to back up scientifically. Please reach out if you guys want access to a writeup or further details/ conversation on how to express this.

basically, we need ideas that can be formalized with academic evidence to be able to communicate them to the vanguard in charge of these sorts of political movements, EA has it, we will need a Neo-EA take on some of the biggest pitfalls. For ones EAs treating people as interchangeable and treating the future and the effects of practices as certain, EAs practically do not adjust their actions for the weight of the uncertainty of the effect(the things baout X will affect T future humans falls apart if the T can be discounted by the contingency of a bunch of components reducing the weight down to 0, most of these EA mind virus things are basically Pascals mugging)

referenced by: >>5585

If western people's received

anon_fagy said in #5582 1d ago: received

lets get started on the obvious, the first way is DEI, many white people are against it, but the biggest losers many argue are not white people but Asians, but let's look to this. It really does appear that the East Asians do better on the rests, but not meaningfully on creativity, except one will notice, from the regions of east Asia that have been ancestrally nuclear family. so yes, quite literally, high GPA, and test scores do mean less if the applicant is from a historically Confucian society.
https://www.oecd.org/en/topics/sub-issues/creative-thinking/pisa-2022-creative-thinking.html

Theres also a fair bit of evidence that these are a bit culture sensitive, particularly studying for many of them is rather distortionary, and so yes, cultures that study more should be graded on a curve.

if we talk about some of this with respect for the justification of a separation of the west in any unique aspect from the rest of the world. To me what stands out is that the west was not completely dominated by one or 2 social classes which then led to the society spec'ing hard into those skills. East Asians largely got controlled by the Confucian bureaucracy, India's Gangetic plain largely brahmin. So, the CTC stuff finds the Asians tend to be high in VSIQ at the expense of GFIQ, which have more predictable impacts on the job market. GFIQ/ inductive reasoning is super useful for research taste/ entrepreneurship and predicting the future in general. In other words many things which previously would be the proper selection criteria normed on western populations, per unit of "dev skills" it would predict weaker for Asians management skills. The rest reliability can vary a fair bit by background for a reason, these two i think are sufficient as a more intellectual justification for limiting immigration to this middle to upper middle-class professions important for most in the western service based economies.

lets get started on received

anon_zore said in #5585 1d ago: received

>>5580
Yeah I think formally many of us are waiting for something new that solves these legacy problems with race politics. But speaking empirically, the level of actual outright ideological white nationalism (eg VDare, Hitler, remigration, fuentes, etc) among the crowd described in OP is what has been somewhat surprising to me and which I considered worthy of discussion.

I look forward to >>5581's scientific theory of who we want in our countries, but I wonder if it misses the point. We want people who we know how to get along with, who are in the same boat as us, who make good neighbors, colleagues, leaders. I think historically what's going on right now is a transition from the growth phase of our civilization to the "fighting over a fixed pie" phase, during which people are just going to tribe up along the salient dimensions, invent new constructs that amount to them and their friends getting power, and so on. Race is one extremely salient dimension these days. It has very little to do with any particular cognitive traits.

referenced by: >>5586

Yeah I think formall received

anon_fagy said in #5586 25h ago: received

>>5585

CANDIDATE CULTURES
Ive encountered these reservations before, and largely the criteria you have selected lines up along these dimensions very very saliently, In fact a charitable interpretation might go as far as cutting out of these basically only the communists, spiteful mutants and race hustlers that may be difficult to seperate.

Id argue its fundamentally a couple major components.

For one family structure, https://gwern.net/doc/history/2013-willy-emmanueltoddlinventiondeleurope.html

one will notice that largely in the english speaking world the Authoritarian nuclear family types have similar enough social structures that they are often really harmonious at being colleagues or neighbors, and for the primogeniture inheritance tend to have robust institutions, long cultural memories, and adeptness at industry. (back in the day scotland has fantastic industry producing much of the worl'd tonnage, the Germanic world speaks for itself, scandinavia was rich in its iron industry which it used to supply something like 2/3rd of the demand in the British isles up unti lthe great northern war(about 1715 when the British become involved with the Prussians) today the Koreans, Japanese, and others have extremely robust industry/exports.

Egalitarian nuclear seems your like basic christian one, ethiopia, latin america, much of southern Europe. less advantageous, dividing landplots hurts industry, they do love a welfare state they cannot afford, less developed financial system, but not far enough off to really be all that troublesome when there aren't massive differences elsewhere, (we will get to it) they seem competent at building societies, seem to enjoy life more as they dont grind it away in industry(notice that northern italy is the most industrious and auth nuclear as opposed to egalitarian nuclear) eldest siblings are a bit more mature and handing them the estate is usually better for cultivating growth.

I MUST ADD CAVEATS communitarian exogamous and authoritarian nuclear are often similar in climate but different due to other pressures, communitarian exogamous was the family system of the ancient romans (live in a clan, marry outside of it) the Chinese and Russians retained it, but historically both have regions which were nuclear family, particularly their most urbanized/competitive? regions, those being the north of China on the yellow, river, and the Russians with Muscovy, where Novgorod and such had more familiar institutions to western sensibilities, but it seems the pressures of steppe raiders tend to select for more autocratic systems/family structure preferences. One will find that of the people of these countries typically these are the ones that are most agreeable to foreign sensibilities (when the aren't overtly patriotic about their homeland that is)

CANDIDATE People
Those are important, but now for more granular individuated selection, for this we need to talk about psychometrics, class and adaptation. The west is unique for many reasons but one of the most salient here is no one class dominated it completely. Now, i will talk about the orthodox world, and the Islamic world, as both od have a fair bit of dynamism, although the Islamic one seemed to have a pretty even triangle keep recurring, the military elite, ulama, and urban bureaucracy kept coming up as a caliphate requires all of them. The orthodox world did have the boyars early, then the Mongols, then absolutism, similar toe Europe, and for such reasons they do seem similarly even in therir cognitivep rofiles(sorta) The bureaucrats won in China, the brahmin in India. Resultantly they specialize much more towards them, and you get these wacky intelligence and cultural profiles that massively value basically seeking that "golden rice bowl" or such, profound study/schooling etc, but also much more frozen. These societies being much more communitarian, the communitarian stuff seems to be in large part the stability of the value of capital, land on the was valuable 5k years ago, and probably 5k from now..

CANDIDATE CULTURES.. received

anon_fagy said in #5587 25h ago: received

will continue later, must sleep

will continue later, received

anon_jive said in #5588 18h ago: received

Interesting observations OP. One thing that I have long found missing from the discourse on this topic is discussion of the fact that while political solutions (such as remigration, migration control) are still worth striving for, they are of varying degrees of low-likelihood, and a parallel and contingency plan should be the development of a culture of endogamy, high-fertility, and ideally, "eugenic breeding" -- not in the cartoon villain sense, but in the sense of "resulting in those with admirable personal traits reproducing more than those with undesirable personal traits". One of the ultimate ends of all this must be the continued existence of various European peoples -- not perfect stasis, but recognizable continuity, ideally with changes only in positive directions, changes that don't break the identification future generations have with past generations. While a people having political control over their own government and borders probably wouldn't hurt the development of such a culture, it seems to me that having such a culture is the thing that is actually necessary, and the only thing that would ensure the continued existence of these peoples absent such political control. But I rarely see discussion of the importance of high-fertility eugenic endogamy, even among people willing to broach other taboo racial topics on the regular. It's a coordination and communication problem and it doesn't even seem as difficult as many others. But I'm not sure exactly how to spread this idea and get people with mutual interest in this to do the obvious (building out social support networks to this end, forming the relevant marriage markets, pairing up and having kids). Right now, it seems each individual or family interested in this is an island, with at best some tenuous connections to other individuals or parents who may feel similarly, but that's far from something with intergenerational staying power. Instead, people who seem inclined in this direction have glommed onto tribal identification with some form of the universal religion of Christianity, which can still be practiced, but just doesn't work as the focal point for an ethnically or racially endogamous marriage project.

referenced by: >>5597

Interesting observat received

anon_jive said in #5589 18h ago: received

I also think that focusing on advocating for endogamy, though still smeared as hateful, is something that can be practiced and publicly supported without one obviously being sent straight to federal prison, even more so than anything to do with immigration, affirmative action, or other such things, as long as it avoids association with violence and is perfectly voluntary and advocacy-based. Although the state regularly meddles in where people can live, what jobs and state benefits they can get, it still doesn't, as far as I can tell, have too heavy of a hand in who can marry who. It's something I believe the Jewish has long practiced somewhat on the down-low, and doing it in such a discrete manner seems like a good approach. Even though a lot of people talk resentfully about how whites shouldn't be forced into a "breeding war" with the rest of the world, the reality is that numbers matter, and they mattered even before the days of democracy -- the age of European expansion was largely driven by this (though they especially matter in democracies).

referenced by: >>5597

I also think that fo received

anon_jive said in #5590 18h ago: received

Imagine how much less of a threat mass migration would be to the US or Europe if European-descended people had a stable or even growing and fiercely endogamous population. It still wouldn't be great, but it would be survivable.

referenced by: >>5597

Imagine how much les received

anon_fagy said in #5592 16h ago: received

i was saying, anyways endogamy in this case is the marrying outside of your CLAN, not interracially. Endogamy is super horrid for any dynamism, because its based off f the following. Lets think of a game theoretic situation, we will be doing backwards induction since its a sequential game.
The question comes down to "if I done hire my brother/cousin, will someone else hire them, and compared between the two how will the outcomes be?" In nuclear family situations people interface with their clan (extended family) much less, so the society in general has agreed to not hire/work with their clan, rather instead work with the people who are best for the job, this is because here there is no gaurantee that the employment of your clan member within the clan would be greater than what they can find externally. In these communitarian societies, the king basically iwll be the most powerful/own that land/knowledge and since its persistently valuable hiring within the clan is better, since yes you dont get the best talent, but the land/capital is the important valuable bit and persistently so since its hte msot valuable i nthe society, so you only hire within your clan, if the king is doing it, then the 2nd best land/capital hodler, can only get land with lower expected value, so they dont,
by backwards induction;
this produces a case cade, where when the best possible employers have no incentive to seek the best candidate rather than simply preserve their current position the society will ossify and cartelize. Ergo, when the folk from communitarian societies arrive in the west, these are in large part the low trust societies people are talking about which will produce non linear ethnic niches to their benefit and the detriment of the dynamism of the society, Vietnamese in nail salons, indians in motels and gas stations etc. These are mostly extremely unpopular since their home natiosn are in part so awful because their culture produces such cartelization, and so their opportunities abroad are much better, but destroy the societies they would wish to take part in.

On Candidate people. we can point out that largely of the caste of thinkers in the whole world, people are quite, autistic/ADHD. SO much so that, it appears the majority of High intelligence i nthe world is linked with autism/high fucntioning, if you look at distributions of autism and IQ, there's a small cluster lower IQ for kanner's and such, while there's a much larger one towards middle and upper middle intelligence, then it falls off its not symmetric since the higher IQ someone with autism is, the later in life they tend to be diagnosed, until past about 20, people dont get diagnosed, so that, this seemingly small proportion of the population nis a massive portion of the high intelligence people. Autism and ADHD have some fundamental features shared but seem adapted for slightly different ecologies.

In hunter gatherer societies autism basically doesn't exist, high IQ autism anyways, that seems to be an urban society feature the East Asians, particularly Japanese have the highest prevalence of DIAGNOSED Autism in the world. Autism is good for sitting downand learning things, given the bureacracy and such of these oscieties/early state building, they have doen rather well for it.

Then there's ADHD, in hunter gatherer societies those with these features are the best TRACKERS and in more developed ones it positively predicts entrepreneurship. Adhd is in large part having to do with excitory signals in the brain, that being that More of them are requires to "be at baseline" so the seem stimulation and can change attention a bunch. Super great for tracking, and entrepreneurship as a result. ADHD is linked with security and manual labour jobs Aswell(likely because rural people tend to be less civilized/organized than urban ones, but this also makes them great for the military

i was saying, anyway received

anon_fagy said in #5593 16h ago: received

both of them result in an abnormally high density of synapses, as the ADHD sort of signals tend to inhibit pruning while autism seems linked with tis inhibited pruning more persistently through ways that are mostly genetic while being less genetic interacting with environment(so autism is like .9 heritbale but adhd is like .7 ish heritable).
These and various other forms of neurodivergence strongly select for each other, but in the west there was so much porosity that in western diagnostic traditions, up until the 2010s, it was such that diagnosticians were instructed to ONLY diagnose autism, or adhd exclusively, whichever one fit better, because in the west, the rural military elites/lords bred a lot with the urban professionals/clergy. In other societies, they were much more sterilized in catholic ones priests are to be celibate, in orthodox ones there's much less room for that mobility and such. It can be argued the propound individualism of the west was the selfish advancement of the own interests of many of these neurodivergent castes gaining more political rights. Hell in the untied states gifted education (which i also argued is in large part composed of the neurodivergent) is considered special education and has access to similar federal funds to the education of the retarded. (while in east asia genetic markers for is are often extinct, DRD4 the VNTR variants are roughly D7, highest in like american natives, moderate in western europeans, the 2R is of roughly half the strength, this one is moderate/low in east asia, 4R is the baseline (check historical freequency paper)

In fact in africa and such obviously much suppression of these classes as one doesn't see nearly as much autism, but plenty of adhd, similar in meso america and such. But these roles were far more rigid and singularly expressed, less power of merchants vs warriors despite being fundamentally similar. The west is like the best place to be neurodivergent, and with the obsession of the upper classes in self-infatuation, such methods I think are extremely persuasive, while also providing a diagnostic criteria A la ellis island capacity/capability tests. Many people deride their birth cultures for being non inclusive of some mental compunction, but if agued the west is a society inherently formed to the benefit of the neruodivergent much more powerfully, we can recruit much of this foreign caste in a firm way without compromising that which we seek to safeguard

referenced by: >>5596

both of them result received

anon_mwky said in #5596 14h ago: received

https://zerocontradictions.net/faqs/race seems particularly salient for this conversation

>>5593
say do you have a similarly extensive post as the one I shared with you but on family types?

say do you have a si received

anon_mwky said in #5597 13h ago: received

>>5588
There are such networks. you are simply unfamiliar with them. these networks tend not to advertise. if your entire philosophy is outbreeding your opponents you are not incentivized to convert people.

i have only heard of them via first hand sources, but I do not participate myself.

>>5589
if you made this initiative public you'd need to effectively form a parallel economy because even if the government does not meddle in your affairs a potential employer can be very cross with you. for these purposes the networks that do engage in this behaviour are typically geographically isolated

You explicitely state "advocacy" so I assume the initiative will be made public. Dunno how things would work if it weren't public.

I think there are some people who are more or less doing this already among civilized society, but they're typically liberals. Have you ever come across friend groups that are liberal and almost entirely white? you know what I mean? they dont advertise themselves as being race realist, but they certainly behave with these exotic preferences

>>5590
better yet just get rid of mass migration. are there not simpler solutions here? it's a policy that is a lot more popular even among many ethnic minorities

There are such netwo received

anon_rozo said in #5599 13h ago: received

> But I rarely see discussion of the importance of high-fertility eugenic endogamy, even among people willing to broach other taboo racial topics on the regular. It's a coordination and communication problem and it doesn't even seem as difficult as many others.

Fertility is the hardest problem. Remigration is demonstrably easier, at least for noncitizen recent immigrants. Denmark achieved a fair amount of remigration and other euro countries are likely to soon; not a single first world country anywhere has successfully reversed birthrate decline. Even Israel, by far the best example today, has decline, just slower and less dysgenic than elsewhere.

Fertility is the har received

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