I've been floating the idea of getting groups of young men around to do things, but it seems those with clock-in-clock-out careers, a house in the suburbs, a car, and a salary consider this to be the good life: normal and wonderful. They're telling me with what seems like a mouth full of glass shards that they enjoy eating it, and the horrendous part is that it's true! Some people are just like that.
I want to race motorcycles across the Alps (I find motorcycling freeing from the box that is a car, but in the US it's too dangerous), architect and design my own homes, or have a fast military jet to zoom around to places. I'm imagining going out with a gang in a Mercedes sprinter van. I'm working on developing my skills and career: settling down and zoning out for two decades is not the move, but it'll take me many years to get there. I don't find most women interesting even though I can tell they like me, I want to be in a position where I can find the one I want. Maybe if I'm not interested I can put her in a matching pool and pair her with a guy in my gang so we can all work together. What's the alternative? Sit at home in the suburbs and watch TV?
Sofiechan, am I insane? If I actually went through the process of acquiring serious wealth, would I come to understand their conservativeness? Or would I be like Elon Musk, cause if I were rich tomorrow I would fly around to colleges and start organizing houses. Maybe I would take a bunch of students to raid the NYC subways of crazy people and we learn how to do urban combat and riot control, the modern phalanx.
Like the previous threads on Bioleninism (you can only get buy-in to a movement from those with the most to gain, i.e. those with nothing), you are put in a weird position where those most agitating for change have the least capability or ability to do it.
But if you have elite overproduction and lots of capable people who find themselves shut out the gates of power due to increasing concentration in industries (like private equity buying up all the independent practice healthcare clinics), then conceivably you get enough capable people.
> They're telling me with what seems like a mouth full of glass shards
Living in a nice neighborhood, in the richest and most powerful country on Earth, owning your own house, with a stable comfortable job and a happy family is "a mouth full of glass"? You should interrogate yourself as to why that grates you.
It is, of course, good to have higher ambitions. But the above is an aspirational life for 99% of people who have ever lived, it's very American and a weird thing to hate.
> I want to race motorcycles across the Alps, architect and design my own homes, or have a fast military jet to zoom around to places.
Nice list. The first one you can do for under $100k, the second for $1m, the third for a lot more. No matter how your career turns out, you have your prize. Just don't wait. Don't fall into the Midlife Crisis trap. Go plan that motorcycle trip, anon.
> I don't find most women interesting even [...] Maybe if I'm not interested I can put her in a matching pool and pair her with a guy in my gang so we can all work together. What's the alternative?
OK, we are back to "you should interrogate yourself." I hesitate to ask, but wtf do you mean by "put her in a matching pool"? Women are not poker chips.
> you can only get buy-in to a movement from those with the most to gain, i.e. those with nothing
The are no moobments, only projects.
1. Dedicate yourself to a project you believe in.
2. If your project is political, make sure it serves the Actually Existing Civilized Productive American. You are correct that "movements" benefiting "those with nothing"--communism, wignattery, and other forms of angry theorycel political extremism--are exercises in futility or worse. Contrast this with, for example, Chris Rufo's big project: weaponizing the Civil Rights Act against DEI discrimination. Grabbing then enemy's spear and spinning it around. If you find a project that solves a real problem for the AECPA, then you can win powerful allies, achieve great victories, and bend the world.
3. Learn to appreciate the feminine.
Your aspirations right now focus on masculine hedonism: racing motorcycles, flying jets. Nothing wrong with that per se--men should absolutely spend less time scrolling and more time making their inner 15yo proud. But it's insufficient on its own.
A good woman is a godsend. A big happy family is on par with any other achievement. You're writing about these things quite flippantly. You can have it all, but you must really feel in your bones why the Circle of Life is beautiful and why women are worth loving.
To answer your question directly: of course a Männerbund is composed of stable men.
Imagine a tight friend group, age 20 to 50. They are bound by a set of core beliefs, including some that are sufficiently taboo that inducting a new member is an act of trust; but all have taste and judgement. No edgelords. No neets. They read books, enjoy sport and nature together. The older ones are dads. The younger ones take dating seriously. They frequent the same establishments. They host family events and smaller private excursions. They advance shared goals at their respective institutions. If opportunity presents, they may end up forming a new institution from scratch to which they dedicate their full efforts.
That's all it is. That's the Founding Fathers, the Traitorous Eight that started Silicon Valley, and many, many less famous groups that have achieved great things. It's a load-bearing pattern for advancing society.
Of course if you are saying "Männerbund" because you're really into the "no girls allowed" aspect and you dream of a owning an F-14 Tomcat and a state-assigned anime girlfriend, then I must remind you that this is an 18+ message board.
Low effort reply: the most successful Männerbunds don't call themselves that. Indeed, probably don't even call themselves anything at all, for the same reasons that a fish wouldn't have a term for water.
OP, the reason why so many guys are "just wanna grill" family men or whatever you want to call them is because it's the path of least resistance. Humans always tend to follow the path of least resistance. Much of what each of us do in our lives is not actually done with conscious, deliberate choice, even if our brains spin a self-serving fiction that tells us that this is what is happening. We're really just going where the momentum takes us. And the family man, steady job life track is a trajectory that's carved out and reinforced in various ways in our society, so that's where a lot of guys end up.
It's pretty uncommon for people to actually be outgoing, assertive, ambitious, energetic go-getters. There's a reason why people like this are so disproportionately successful: it's a rare set of traits in a world with very little supply of them and lots of demand for them. Lots of people like to imagine that they're like this when they really aren't. If you're really like this, just go out there and do your thing, and other men (and women) will inevitably flock to you. No need to think about it beyond that (and in fact, people in this category almost never do - that's part of why it's so much easier for them to do the things they do).
>>4213 You are insane, and you are not insane. I share your feelings. I too hate the kind of comfortable "success" that most people seek as boring and cucked, and yearn for the mannerbund. However, any origin of this feeling in poverty or resentment is illegitimate. You see a gap between what ought to be and what is. This is natural but the bioleninism thing is always lurking in unexpected forms, whispering to you that you haven't been given a fair chance, that if *you* had money and power things would be different, that capable people are being shut out and it's any day now they will revolt. These are palliative lies just as much as those of the left. If you were really all that, you would have succeeded already. Annihilate your self regard and do the best you can to become the person you want to see in the world.
The system is actually extremely porous to capable people. The problem is just that the power on offer is highly limited. Even for the rich, the only thing you're really allowed to do is grill. This is why everyone does that. Their spirits are broken and they just try to enjoy the luxury work camp experience because they see no way out or have stopped even trying. You can go into politics even quite easily but largely what is on offer there again is an endless slog with no comrades and many system-aligned frenemies.
I think there is a way out, and it comes from the conviction to bond together as men over political-intellectual taboo, and then work together pragmatically to advance each other's interests while advancing the shared vision you have for your corner of the world, which may get bigger as you succeed. But this is itself an incredible great work because very few people think like this anymore, because it has largely not succeeded as a strategy in recent memory. There are a few examples though, so it's not hopeless. But we do have to calibrate our hopes. We live in an age of stifling lameness, and apparently not of revolutionary potential, as much as we need that.
Anyways I'm in. I have a loose network of political and intellectual men that needs to be organized, in some cases is already semi-organized. We need more comrades. Do it. Find us, or our equivalent in your town, and keep alive a spirit of adventure and ambition. It's the most important thing you will do in your life.
>>4218 >But the above is an aspirational life for 99% of people who have ever lived, it's very American and a weird thing to hate. This is the same bullshit we've been fed by kindergarten teachers for a generation or two to shut us up and break our spirits. "You are the wealthiest 1% of the world and everyone else is less fortunate so don't you dare dream of having other kinds of ambitions or questioning the system. In fact you need to just dedicate your life to redistributing this wealth to the global south". I know you don't mean this but I suspect the meme you're invoking isn't doing us any good. The fact is that our wealth is counterfeit. Yes it's amazing, but it's *NOT* what matters. It is the blankets and fire water that has been given to us to distract us from the fact that our country and political future is being taken away.
>I hesitate to ask, but wtf do you mean by "put her in a matching pool"? He means introduce her to his friends in hopes of forming more allied families. It is a natural and proper thing for men to try to help their buddies with the women they aren't going to go for themselves.
>The are no moobments, only projects. Correct. There may have at one time been movements, when the population was capable of much more self-government and self-organization, but this is not true any more. Projects and networks is the game now.
>Chris Rufo's big project: weaponizing the Civil Rights Act against DEI discrimination. Grabbing then enemy's spear and spinning it around. Hasn't he also declared the necessity of breaking that spear? Let's not forget that's what needs to be done.
>>4219 >this is an 18+ message board. I agree with everything you said for the most part but I will contradict you here. Sofiechan is for delusionally ambitious 14 year old chunibyos. The rest of us are just visiting. The party line is to invert gerontocracy. Affirmative action for handsome and intelligent lads! State mandated supersonic personal transport and anime catgirls (the dangerous kind) for every young man of worth.
To be somewhat more sober, sofiechan is "SFW" and therefore not 18+. We stand with the youth of the world against all forms of gerontocracy.
I agree with this sentiment and that's why the >>4218 feels like something I'd see on the For You Page.
The conditions for civilization are made possible by uncivilized men. America is defined by people like John Muir because we worship great individuals, and we don't build monuments to people who were chill guys who mowed their lawn. Obviously we Respect Women etc. but there is more to life than what 99% of people want, and I would hope that is common sense to the posters here.
This is not to say settling down at some point wasn't the dream for the cowboys, but there's a reason they didn't just pinch pennies working more menial jobs.
It feels like glass in my mouth because it looks excessively wasteful and meant to detach someone from existence as much as possible. I lived in Europe and Asia so that may be part of it. The social responsibility and frugality is to me a necessary and worthwhile cost to bear, as these nice neighborhoods only seem to exist in a bubble. Read the new partner pages of the large law or consulting firms and it's all "go to Antarctica, watch the Grand Prix, go on an African safari." Live in Long Island, have a nice house and a city apartment, commute in giant SUV to glass tower in city. Take flights between conferences. I see the option available to me ahead and I don't like it.
I do not feel I comfortable mentally dismissing the family with 5 kids waiting at the interstate off ramp or the hobos among the streets of New York while recognizing there is little I can do to help. A lot of it truthfully is their problem too, but not all. I keep some water bottles on me and that's about it.
I have my motorcycle license. Will do it when more financially set and have some time off.
I've heard suggestions DEI was a political movement organized by Obama, but he had to throw in other groups to make it seem believable. Biden was Obama and Jill's slave if you look closely at their body language and speech as Biden is much more inflexible and doesn't grasp why people are doing things, going by principle rather than motive.
They do flock. When you talk to guys who went through college and hated it or are stuck in some small manufacturing town or never had anyone believe in them, giving them hope is like animating fossils to life. The issue is: I don't have enough saved money or a successful business (though it's in the works) to put people into a productive income-generating role, I meet women who like me but I don't want to entangle them (because it DOES happen) nor can I commit to them. At best I've had luck organizing some people to explain things like a preacher, but sometimes they don't understand due to not having my direct experiences.
The only partnership that I can easily form is with are those who are in a position behind me. Everyone who is sort of at my level has their own job/focus/alternative group and have differences in opinion about what sort of world they want to see. There were a lot of people creating rinky-dink college clubs that dissipated easily and that happens if you don't have a core group of strong people, who themselves would rather be part of something bigger like your consulting club than the head of something starting from scratch. So the problem is finding that core group of competent people that agrees on a specific project they *really* care about or becoming a sole leader good enough at sales and getting grants to start distributing projects to group members with many better options among themselves.
Sure, I don't mean "18+" literally. The Actually Existing Pro-Civilization Teenager is very welcome.
There is a particular youth phenomenon we should avoid. I'm not accusing the OP of this, but it's what I was joking about.
Let's call it the Tard Right. The Fuentes/Tate orbit. Defining characteristics: - Puerile, juvenile goals - Immature, black-and-white worldview - Stunted disposition toward women - Politics driven by resentment and desire for an ingroup
Nothing good ever comes from that. (Unless you are an enterprising Mamdani-type, in which case the tard right is a highly useful foil and vote driver.)
> To be somewhat more sober, sofiechan is "SFW"
Is it?
There are many threads on here that, were you caught posting from a work computer, you'd be at least as likely to be fired as if you were merely looking at pornhub.com
I think you should ask yourself what the primary purpose of your Männerbund would be. If it’s doing cool masculine shit, and organizing group resources to that end, then that’s all well and good, I don’t really have any specific advice pertaining to that.
But if you envision your bund as even slightly political, whether that be by specific shared belief(s) or a general motivating factor of societal unrest, be very careful how you structure it and who you let in. This is especially true in europe where FoA and FoS protections are famously lacking, but even in a blue state you are not safe. Look up what happened to VDARE in NY if you are unfamiliar. Only let in people you can trust and vouch for.
Lastly, any bund-like organization in the modern west cannot effect direct political or civil change. You can organize on the ground level to lift each other up in your own pursuits. But once you are party or a club you have a target on your back. If you want to have a long term effect on the west in the manner of the bunds (no pun intended) of the past, you need to have kids. This is also just true regardless. Motorcycling is cool, and there are a lot of wagecucks who don’t motorcycle and that sucks, but ultimately it doesn’t matter. Everything else you listed doesn’t matter. Have kids. Make your own personal männerbund.
I agree having kids is great but can you spell out the argument a bit more? "Once you have a party or a club you have a target on your back" is exaggerated, but even if true how does that imply "you cannot effect direct political change" and especially "the only way to have a long term effect on the west is to have kids"?
Seems like there's civic and political power available to be grabbed all over the place. Maybe if you literally brand yourself as a "Mannerbund" the Cathedral will have a strong immune response, but there are tons of juntos and clubs and circles and organizations all over place wielding immense political power.
>>4213 > Or would I be like Elon Musk, cause if I were rich tomorrow I would fly around to colleges and start organizing houses. Maybe I would take a bunch of students to raid the NYC subways of crazy people and we learn how to do urban combat and riot control, the modern phalanx.
The former will result in a lot of light, not a lot of heat, and more likely than not you getting arrested because someone did too much coke at your house party or someone from outside your circle had sex with a drunk girl and now there are rape charges.
The latter will result in you being immediately arrested.
I think you know both of these things, though?
>>4269 Re: the above, these sorts of flashy political actions are much more difficult than OP would make them seem. If you want to do some big anti-crazy-person stunt in NY, you probably want political connections, and at a minimum you want good legal advice. If you're some kind of world-class showman maybe this doesn't apply.
But for the most part, targeted political change requires deep reserves of knowledge and manpower from somewhere. They require a base and they require allies. The juntos and cabals you refer to are going to be composed of well-connected stable individuals who have mostly normal-looking lives.
Having kids is good advice for building durable social relations. Being a single male socialite trying to build your mannerbund doesn't work as well as being a respectable father of five, for most people in most places.
