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Can you get stable people to join a Männerbund?

anon_fixa said in #4213 1mo ago: received

I've been floating the idea of getting groups of young men around to do things, but it seems those with clock-in-clock-out careers, a house in the suburbs, a car, and a salary consider this to be the good life: normal and wonderful. They're telling me with what seems like a mouth full of glass shards that they enjoy eating it, and the horrendous part is that it's true! Some people are just like that.

I want to race motorcycles across the Alps (I find motorcycling freeing from the box that is a car, but in the US it's too dangerous), architect and design my own homes, or have a fast military jet to zoom around to places. I'm imagining going out with a gang in a Mercedes sprinter van. I'm working on developing my skills and career: settling down and zoning out for two decades is not the move, but it'll take me many years to get there. I don't find most women interesting even though I can tell they like me, I want to be in a position where I can find the one I want. Maybe if I'm not interested I can put her in a matching pool and pair her with a guy in my gang so we can all work together. What's the alternative? Sit at home in the suburbs and watch TV?

Sofiechan, am I insane? If I actually went through the process of acquiring serious wealth, would I come to understand their conservativeness? Or would I be like Elon Musk, cause if I were rich tomorrow I would fly around to colleges and start organizing houses. Maybe I would take a bunch of students to raid the NYC subways of crazy people and we learn how to do urban combat and riot control, the modern phalanx.

Like the previous threads on Bioleninism (you can only get buy-in to a movement from those with the most to gain, i.e. those with nothing), you are put in a weird position where those most agitating for change have the least capability or ability to do it.

But if you have elite overproduction and lots of capable people who find themselves shut out the gates of power due to increasing concentration in industries (like private equity buying up all the independent practice healthcare clinics), then conceivably you get enough capable people.

referenced by: >>4219 >>4226 >>4270

I've been floating t received

anon_tefy said in #4218 1mo ago: received

> They're telling me with what seems like a mouth full of glass shards

Living in a nice neighborhood, in the richest and most powerful country on Earth, owning your own house, with a stable comfortable job and a happy family is "a mouth full of glass"? You should interrogate yourself as to why that grates you.

It is, of course, good to have higher ambitions. But the above is an aspirational life for 99% of people who have ever lived, it's very American and a weird thing to hate.

> I want to race motorcycles across the Alps, architect and design my own homes, or have a fast military jet to zoom around to places.

Nice list. The first one you can do for under $100k, the second for $1m, the third for a lot more. No matter how your career turns out, you have your prize. Just don't wait. Don't fall into the Midlife Crisis trap. Go plan that motorcycle trip, anon.

> I don't find most women interesting even [...] Maybe if I'm not interested I can put her in a matching pool and pair her with a guy in my gang so we can all work together. What's the alternative?

OK, we are back to "you should interrogate yourself." I hesitate to ask, but wtf do you mean by "put her in a matching pool"? Women are not poker chips.

> you can only get buy-in to a movement from those with the most to gain, i.e. those with nothing

The are no moobments, only projects.

1. Dedicate yourself to a project you believe in.

2. If your project is political, make sure it serves the Actually Existing Civilized Productive American. You are correct that "movements" benefiting "those with nothing"--communism, wignattery, and other forms of angry theorycel political extremism--are exercises in futility or worse. Contrast this with, for example, Chris Rufo's big project: weaponizing the Civil Rights Act against DEI discrimination. Grabbing then enemy's spear and spinning it around. If you find a project that solves a real problem for the AECPA, then you can win powerful allies, achieve great victories, and bend the world.

3. Learn to appreciate the feminine.

Your aspirations right now focus on masculine hedonism: racing motorcycles, flying jets. Nothing wrong with that per se--men should absolutely spend less time scrolling and more time making their inner 15yo proud. But it's insufficient on its own.

A good woman is a godsend. A big happy family is on par with any other achievement. You're writing about these things quite flippantly. You can have it all, but you must really feel in your bones why the Circle of Life is beautiful and why women are worth loving.

referenced by: >>4227 >>4232 >>4235

Living in a nice nei received

anon_tefy said in #4219 1mo ago: received

>>4213

To answer your question directly: of course a Männerbund is composed of stable men.

Imagine a tight friend group, age 20 to 50. They are bound by a set of core beliefs, including some that are sufficiently taboo that inducting a new member is an act of trust; but all have taste and judgement. No edgelords. No neets. They read books, enjoy sport and nature together. The older ones are dads. The younger ones take dating seriously. They frequent the same establishments. They host family events and smaller private excursions. They advance shared goals at their respective institutions. If opportunity presents, they may end up forming a new institution from scratch to which they dedicate their full efforts.

That's all it is. That's the Founding Fathers, the Traitorous Eight that started Silicon Valley, and many, many less famous groups that have achieved great things. It's a load-bearing pattern for advancing society.

Of course if you are saying "Männerbund" because you're really into the "no girls allowed" aspect and you dream of a owning an F-14 Tomcat and a state-assigned anime girlfriend, then I must remind you that this is an 18+ message board.

referenced by: >>4228

To answer your quest received

anon_dijy said in #4224 1mo ago: received

Low effort reply: the most successful Männerbunds don't call themselves that. Indeed, probably don't even call themselves anything at all, for the same reasons that a fish wouldn't have a term for water.

Low effort reply: th received

gs said in #4225 1mo ago: received

OP, the reason why so many guys are "just wanna grill" family men or whatever you want to call them is because it's the path of least resistance. Humans always tend to follow the path of least resistance. Much of what each of us do in our lives is not actually done with conscious, deliberate choice, even if our brains spin a self-serving fiction that tells us that this is what is happening. We're really just going where the momentum takes us. And the family man, steady job life track is a trajectory that's carved out and reinforced in various ways in our society, so that's where a lot of guys end up.

It's pretty uncommon for people to actually be outgoing, assertive, ambitious, energetic go-getters. There's a reason why people like this are so disproportionately successful: it's a rare set of traits in a world with very little supply of them and lots of demand for them. Lots of people like to imagine that they're like this when they really aren't. If you're really like this, just go out there and do your thing, and other men (and women) will inevitably flock to you. No need to think about it beyond that (and in fact, people in this category almost never do - that's part of why it's so much easier for them to do the things they do).

referenced by: >>4235

OP, the reason why s received

anon_saqu said in #4226 1mo ago: received

>>4213
You are insane, and you are not insane. I share your feelings. I too hate the kind of comfortable "success" that most people seek as boring and cucked, and yearn for the mannerbund. However, any origin of this feeling in poverty or resentment is illegitimate. You see a gap between what ought to be and what is. This is natural but the bioleninism thing is always lurking in unexpected forms, whispering to you that you haven't been given a fair chance, that if *you* had money and power things would be different, that capable people are being shut out and it's any day now they will revolt. These are palliative lies just as much as those of the left. If you were really all that, you would have succeeded already. Annihilate your self regard and do the best you can to become the person you want to see in the world.

The system is actually extremely porous to capable people. The problem is just that the power on offer is highly limited. Even for the rich, the only thing you're really allowed to do is grill. This is why everyone does that. Their spirits are broken and they just try to enjoy the luxury work camp experience because they see no way out or have stopped even trying. You can go into politics even quite easily but largely what is on offer there again is an endless slog with no comrades and many system-aligned frenemies.

I think there is a way out, and it comes from the conviction to bond together as men over political-intellectual taboo, and then work together pragmatically to advance each other's interests while advancing the shared vision you have for your corner of the world, which may get bigger as you succeed. But this is itself an incredible great work because very few people think like this anymore, because it has largely not succeeded as a strategy in recent memory. There are a few examples though, so it's not hopeless. But we do have to calibrate our hopes. We live in an age of stifling lameness, and apparently not of revolutionary potential, as much as we need that.

Anyways I'm in. I have a loose network of political and intellectual men that needs to be organized, in some cases is already semi-organized. We need more comrades. Do it. Find us, or our equivalent in your town, and keep alive a spirit of adventure and ambition. It's the most important thing you will do in your life.

You are insane, and received

anon_saqu said in #4227 1mo ago: received

>>4218
>But the above is an aspirational life for 99% of people who have ever lived, it's very American and a weird thing to hate.
This is the same bullshit we've been fed by kindergarten teachers for a generation or two to shut us up and break our spirits. "You are the wealthiest 1% of the world and everyone else is less fortunate so don't you dare dream of having other kinds of ambitions or questioning the system. In fact you need to just dedicate your life to redistributing this wealth to the global south". I know you don't mean this but I suspect the meme you're invoking isn't doing us any good. The fact is that our wealth is counterfeit. Yes it's amazing, but it's *NOT* what matters. It is the blankets and fire water that has been given to us to distract us from the fact that our country and political future is being taken away.

>I hesitate to ask, but wtf do you mean by "put her in a matching pool"?
He means introduce her to his friends in hopes of forming more allied families. It is a natural and proper thing for men to try to help their buddies with the women they aren't going to go for themselves.

>The are no moobments, only projects.
Correct. There may have at one time been movements, when the population was capable of much more self-government and self-organization, but this is not true any more. Projects and networks is the game now.

>Chris Rufo's big project: weaponizing the Civil Rights Act against DEI discrimination. Grabbing then enemy's spear and spinning it around.
Hasn't he also declared the necessity of breaking that spear? Let's not forget that's what needs to be done.

This is the same bul received

admin said in #4228 1mo ago: received

>>4219
>this is an 18+ message board.
I agree with everything you said for the most part but I will contradict you here. Sofiechan is for delusionally ambitious 14 year old chunibyos. The rest of us are just visiting. The party line is to invert gerontocracy. Affirmative action for handsome and intelligent lads! State mandated supersonic personal transport and anime catgirls (the dangerous kind) for every young man of worth.

To be somewhat more sober, sofiechan is "SFW" and therefore not 18+. We stand with the youth of the world against all forms of gerontocracy.

referenced by: >>4232 >>4237

I agree with everyth received

anon_memw said in #4232 1mo ago: received

>>4228

I agree with this sentiment and that's why the >>4218 feels like something I'd see on the For You Page.

The conditions for civilization are made possible by uncivilized men. America is defined by people like John Muir because we worship great individuals, and we don't build monuments to people who were chill guys who mowed their lawn. Obviously we Respect Women etc. but there is more to life than what 99% of people want, and I would hope that is common sense to the posters here.

This is not to say settling down at some point wasn't the dream for the cowboys, but there's a reason they didn't just pinch pennies working more menial jobs.

I agree with this se received

anon_fixa said in #4235 1mo ago: received

>>4218

It feels like glass in my mouth because it looks excessively wasteful and meant to detach someone from existence as much as possible. I lived in Europe and Asia so that may be part of it. The social responsibility and frugality is to me a necessary and worthwhile cost to bear, as these nice neighborhoods only seem to exist in a bubble. Read the new partner pages of the large law or consulting firms and it's all "go to Antarctica, watch the Grand Prix, go on an African safari." Live in Long Island, have a nice house and a city apartment, commute in giant SUV to glass tower in city. Take flights between conferences. I see the option available to me ahead and I don't like it.

I do not feel I comfortable mentally dismissing the family with 5 kids waiting at the interstate off ramp or the hobos among the streets of New York while recognizing there is little I can do to help. A lot of it truthfully is their problem too, but not all. I keep some water bottles on me and that's about it.

I have my motorcycle license. Will do it when more financially set and have some time off.

I've heard suggestions DEI was a political movement organized by Obama, but he had to throw in other groups to make it seem believable. Biden was Obama and Jill's slave if you look closely at their body language and speech as Biden is much more inflexible and doesn't grasp why people are doing things, going by principle rather than motive.

>>4225

They do flock. When you talk to guys who went through college and hated it or are stuck in some small manufacturing town or never had anyone believe in them, giving them hope is like animating fossils to life. The issue is: I don't have enough saved money or a successful business (though it's in the works) to put people into a productive income-generating role, I meet women who like me but I don't want to entangle them (because it DOES happen) nor can I commit to them. At best I've had luck organizing some people to explain things like a preacher, but sometimes they don't understand due to not having my direct experiences.

The only partnership that I can easily form is with are those who are in a position behind me. Everyone who is sort of at my level has their own job/focus/alternative group and have differences in opinion about what sort of world they want to see. There were a lot of people creating rinky-dink college clubs that dissipated easily and that happens if you don't have a core group of strong people, who themselves would rather be part of something bigger like your consulting club than the head of something starting from scratch. So the problem is finding that core group of competent people that agrees on a specific project they *really* care about or becoming a sole leader good enough at sales and getting grants to start distributing projects to group members with many better options among themselves.

It feels like glass received

anon_tefy said in #4237 1mo ago: received

>>4228

Sure, I don't mean "18+" literally. The Actually Existing Pro-Civilization Teenager is very welcome.

There is a particular youth phenomenon we should avoid. I'm not accusing the OP of this, but it's what I was joking about.

Let's call it the Tard Right. The Fuentes/Tate orbit. Defining characteristics:
- Puerile, juvenile goals
- Immature, black-and-white worldview
- Stunted disposition toward women
- Politics driven by resentment and desire for an ingroup

Nothing good ever comes from that. (Unless you are an enterprising Mamdani-type, in which case the tard right is a highly useful foil and vote driver.)

> To be somewhat more sober, sofiechan is "SFW"

Is it?

There are many threads on here that, were you caught posting from a work computer, you'd be at least as likely to be fired as if you were merely looking at pornhub.com

All the more reason for discretion.

Sure, I don't mean " received

nwm said in #4241 1mo ago: received

I think you should ask yourself what the primary purpose of your Männerbund would be. If it’s doing cool masculine shit, and organizing group resources to that end, then that’s all well and good, I don’t really have any specific advice pertaining to that.

But if you envision your bund as even slightly political, whether that be by specific shared belief(s) or a general motivating factor of societal unrest, be very careful how you structure it and who you let in. This is especially true in europe where FoA and FoS protections are famously lacking, but even in a blue state you are not safe. Look up what happened to VDARE in NY if you are unfamiliar. Only let in people you can trust and vouch for.

Lastly, any bund-like organization in the modern west cannot effect direct political or civil change. You can organize on the ground level to lift each other up in your own pursuits. But once you are party or a club you have a target on your back. If you want to have a long term effect on the west in the manner of the bunds (no pun intended) of the past, you need to have kids. This is also just true regardless. Motorcycling is cool, and there are a lot of wagecucks who don’t motorcycle and that sucks, but ultimately it doesn’t matter. Everything else you listed doesn’t matter. Have kids. Make your own personal männerbund.

referenced by: >>4269

I think you should a received

anon_sany said in #4269 1mo ago: received

>>4241

I agree having kids is great but can you spell out the argument a bit more? "Once you have a party or a club you have a target on your back" is exaggerated, but even if true how does that imply "you cannot effect direct political change" and especially "the only way to have a long term effect on the west is to have kids"?

Seems like there's civic and political power available to be grabbed all over the place. Maybe if you literally brand yourself as a "Mannerbund" the Cathedral will have a strong immune response, but there are tons of juntos and clubs and circles and organizations all over place wielding immense political power.

referenced by: >>4270

I agree having kids received

anon_huvu said in #4270 1mo ago: received

>>4213
> Or would I be like Elon Musk, cause if I were rich tomorrow I would fly around to colleges and start organizing houses. Maybe I would take a bunch of students to raid the NYC subways of crazy people and we learn how to do urban combat and riot control, the modern phalanx.

The former will result in a lot of light, not a lot of heat, and more likely than not you getting arrested because someone did too much coke at your house party or someone from outside your circle had sex with a drunk girl and now there are rape charges.

The latter will result in you being immediately arrested.

I think you know both of these things, though?

>>4269
Re: the above, these sorts of flashy political actions are much more difficult than OP would make them seem. If you want to do some big anti-crazy-person stunt in NY, you probably want political connections, and at a minimum you want good legal advice. If you're some kind of world-class showman maybe this doesn't apply.

But for the most part, targeted political change requires deep reserves of knowledge and manpower from somewhere. They require a base and they require allies. The juntos and cabals you refer to are going to be composed of well-connected stable individuals who have mostly normal-looking lives.

Having kids is good advice for building durable social relations. Being a single male socialite trying to build your mannerbund doesn't work as well as being a respectable father of five, for most people in most places.

The former will resu received

anon_quxe said in #4310 4w ago: received

https://chevauchee.substack.com/p/objections-to-the-chevauchee

referenced by: >>4322 >>4390

https://chevauchee.s received

anon_kwto said in #4322 4w ago: received

>>4310

Is this supposed to signify that Mannerbund-joiners are unstable? Jokes aside, this substack seems to contain a concretization of BAPism, but which is "more BAPist than BAP" insofar as his actual vision in section 4 of Bronze Age Mindset is basically normal politics. The author "improves on" BAP by better reconciling earth-mother and sky-father and avoiding the trap of glorifying parasitism. The mistakes BAP makes are sealed into the system and cannot be removed by tunnelling down, so the author cannot in a certain sense be faulted for keeping them.

referenced by: >>4326

Is this supposed to received

anon_quxe said in #4326 3w ago: received

>>4322
I think Costin is a very talented edge lord who's only real advice is to:
1. Don't join groups like patriot front or proud boys
2. Vote republican
3. Get fit

The guy writing this is larping a bit but hes 100 times more serious than Costin. Aaden says something like "I want men with nothing left for them in the west". Which totally makes sense for someone to do something like this you'd have to be out of traditional options. Other posts have said something like "groups of serious men with families who are good at business and are friends and work together is a good goal and this is a Mannerbund". Okay sure thats all great, but I don't think thats what OP had in mind.

My intent with posting this was to present someone who is seemingly serious about forming a Mannerbund so that you could see what that would look like and see what goes through this persons head.

referenced by: >>4327

I think Costin is a received

anon_fiqy said in #4327 3w ago: received

>>4326

> The guy writing this is larping a bit but hes 100 times more serious than Costin

No. BAP's advice to not sperg out, to vote, and to get fit is reasonable and correct. He has other good advice too... you should read books and make babies. He may be an entertainer by profession, but introducing an entire generation of smart reality-based young men to Nietzsche is a big accomplishment, even if he had to post a lot of anime titties to make it happen.

Meanwhile the Substack you linked is the worst kind of unserious. It's some Waco impersonator who fantasizes about being part of an independent Texas militia or a armed band in the near future post-USA? That's the prediction? Give me a polymarket so I can take his tardbux.

Here's a disease common on the bottom of the horseshoe, the glowposting right and the people who unironically identify as communists or whatnot:
1. They project urgent problems in their own personal lives into urgent problems in society
2. They lack self-awareness
3. They keep predicting the imminent collapse of Late Stage Capitalism, ZOG, or whatever their preferred slur is for our present political economy and system of government.

The smart ones are at least perceptive and can produce interesting observations along the way, but ultimately still engage in motivated reasoning. They wishcast that society is about to die so that they can rewrite it.

This is where BAP is just smarter. He knows how to tell the truth by joking, and he knows how change actually works. Big changes are possible. "The days are long but the decades are short." The world is rewritten over time by groundwork, by cultural and technological and political means, by the efforts of smart and persistent men with their head screwed on straight, not by warboys riding the collapse shiny and chrome. Maybe in Somalia, but not here.

referenced by: >>4329

No. BAP's advice to received

anon_quxe said in #4329 3w ago: received

>>4327
When I said serious I meant serious about doing something truly radical - forming a Mannerbund - like Costin will reference but would never do, you can think hes a clown but he would actually do it, you can tell.

Voting is a joke
Costin is completely neutral on the natalism question. He has said "do it if you want to but its not a political act"

I do not agree with Aeden's prediction that the government will become so weak it could not use the military to stop a military conquest in Africa. Seems unlikely. I was simply trying to present someone who is serious. Serious about a mannerbund that is. Costin is serious. Serious about convincing you to vote red no matter what. I believe I even have the screenshots somewhere but he was posting QAnon tier garbage right after the 2020 election saying some crap about how the military was going to back Trump and make him the winner and jail Hilary or something lol. Idk if pandering to audience or hes just crazy.

Also he is not really glowposting at all. He says roughly "we will simply wait and maybe this path will be for our sons, we are not meeting or coordinating at all. We simply wait and one day itll be clear no one will be able to stop us"

whos more serious?
the guy willing to do something radical
or
decadent old guy jester

When I said serious received

anon_quxe said in #4331 3w ago: received

The point of my posting here is just to show that you likely cannot get stable people to join a Mannerbund. If your Mannerbund is a wholesome group of friends who read books and hike and go to the shooting range then yes of course. If your idea of a Mannerbund is a pirate gang then no its gonna be some pretty insane people. Thats what I was trying to communicate.

Additionally Costin understands this dynamic when he tells you to not join patriot front or proud boys. He is correct there is likely going to be something wrong with these people. Even if they arnt feds. The most he says is just make small groups of friends and workout together.

The point of my post received

anon_xuna said in #4335 3w ago: received

LKY tip: disguise it as something benign.

LKY tip: disguise it received

anon_huri said in #4342 3w ago: received

This trend of pitching a group of friends as a mannerbund is doing too much damage to people who have no idea to make one friend in the first place. It's quite literally just a group of friends, commonly who share some specific interest. These are not hard to find, to join, or even to start if you know where to look for whatever it is you want to do. You aren't going to build some James Bond-esque group, not without a lot of money and a lot of time, but you can very easily build a group that shoots together, skis together, participates in more intimate family life. Figure out what your main defining factors are of people you want to be friends with, specifically for a very long time, and then find some organizing activity. It doesn't have to be local either, start a discord.

I've been part of one for going on almost a decade and pretty much everyone at this point is stable.

referenced by: >>4344

This trend of pitchi received

anon_xuna said in #4344 3w ago: received

>>4342

This sounds fun. However, in my childhood neighborhood European immigrants built community centers and parks rather than spending it all on consumption.

Do you not want to know every brick of the institutions you've created, setting the rites and patterns for generations to come?

When all man desires to do is get a job and spend time on hobbies, something is lost in the spirit in ways perhaps not dissimilar to serfs toiling for the weekend.

referenced by: >>4346

This sounds fun. How received

anon_huri said in #4346 3w ago: received

>>4344
Of course, and now that the group has matured this is the plan, but you don't start a group that way, at least not a successful one. There are plenty of adjacent sphere groups larping as secret societies that have managed to get nothing at all done because their goals don't make sense for a group that hasn't built up any trust prior to going after a huge project.

You have start small and work your way up. Especially given the average age of people who want to do this in the first place. Despite what SF projects, the amount of 20 somethings that can afford to bankroll something like this is very very small. Members need to come into their own, with the help of the group, so that as a group you can afford to do such things.

Of course, and now t received

anon_dibe said in #4390 7d ago: received

>>4310
>One day, before too long, though it might even be thirty more years, the aircraft carriers will cease to float, the missiles will cease to fly, and the nukes will fail to detonate, if our nukes even work right now.

This is the line that exposes the whole essay as (unfortunately) completely unserious. The market is very, very good at ensuring that the flow of global commerce continues to flow. There are tens of millions of very smart whites and asians who are devoting their lives to making sure that the disruptions to the global logistics system are either prevented or quickly remedied.

One trillion dollars is not just a meaningless number. It is a cybernetic organism that can motivate enormous swaths of human capital and dozens of nation-states to act in accordance with economic efficacy. Over the next hundred years, the sky may fall, aliens may invade, and peoples may nuke other peoples. But there will never, ever be a "collapse" that lets you not pay any taxes to the IRS or lets the global system of sea trade stop. One trillion dollars, or two or three, can keep the carriers afloat until the sun burns out.

This is the line tha received

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